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Author Topic: Ion Generators  (Read 292 times)
PRI_Ranier
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« on: March 06, 2010, 03:54:02 PM »

Curious about the actual application of ion generators in an enclosed setting like a house or such:

How long might it take for a given number of generators in a space of given size to reach a relative steady state concentration of ions in the atmosphere a given distance from the generator(s)?

What is the half-life of a relative ion concentration in a given environment?


What I'm getting at is, well...trying to understand what factors come into play when deciding how to appropriately use ion generators.  I don't really want THE answers to the questions above; really, just some better info to improve ion generator protocols.


TL;DR <<<"Too long; didn't read", FYI <<<"For your info" <<<"Information" <<<Jeez, duh!
Should ion generators be used during the first half of an investigation or second half of an investigation?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 06:37:05 AM by PRI_Nick » Logged

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PRI_Nick
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« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2010, 06:39:57 AM »

Great Topic Tim,

I believe it takes a while for the concentration of ionic particles in a room to accumulate before they actually have an affect on any paranormal activity.  The places where we have used these devices we have had some very interesting responses.

SO I believe they need to be plugged in as early as possible.

Nick
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PRI_Derrick
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« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2010, 08:41:16 AM »

How long might it take for a given number of generators in a space of given size to reach a relative steady state concentration of ions in the atmosphere a given distance from the generator(s)?

What is the half-life of a relative ion concentration in a given environment?


What I'm getting at is, well...trying to understand what factors come into play when deciding how to appropriately use ion generators.  I don't really want THE answers to the questions above; really, just some better info to improve ion generator protocols.


TL;DR <<<"Too long; didn't read", FYI <<<"For your info" <<<"Information" <<<Jeez, duh!
Should ion generators be used during the first half of an investigation or second half of an investigation?


I think we probably need to set up some controls for this.  Maybe we could start with three different sized rooms and use a set number of ion generators per room.  Let's say three per room and then set the ion counter in the middle of the room.  We could then just put a camera on the ion counter so our presence doesn't alter the outcome.  We could do several trials per room and then graph the rise of the ion levels (I would say at 30 second or one minute intervals).  We could also graph the fall of the levels to determine the half-life.  We would probably also need to record temperature, relative humidity and barometric pressure, as these could influence the rise and fall values. 

I agree with Nick that there could be something to this, but we definitely need a better handle on what we're doing.  The issue with the above experiment, is that we rarely investigate in an enclosed room.  Usually there's a door open or multiple doorways open depending on the setup.  However, if we could determine the amount of time it takes to "saturate" a given space, maybe we could extrapolate that out to the size of the room we're working in.  That's why it would help to experiment initially with various room sizes to see if there is a correlation between room size and time to saturation and also the fall in negative ions (ie. half-life).

Maybe we could do this at the PRI Institute.  LOL.

DW 
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« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2010, 08:56:28 AM »

great ideas!  i think this would defenitately warrent some logging hours!

i think this also should be chalked up to better understanding our equiptment as well!  then there will be documentation to go along with our findings!  for future references!

Let's do it!

AI
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PRI_Ranier
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« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2010, 05:48:21 PM »

Does PRI have an ion counter with data logging capabilities? Otherwise, Derrick's camera idea will work, I'm sure.  I like Derrick's idea of having some initial data on the development and clearance of ions from a given room of a given size.  It really could provide some insight to perceived experiences when using generators.  Specifically regarding Derrick's suggestion, I'm curious:  With the ultimate goal to better understand the development, distribution and ultimate dispersal or neutralization of produced ions, would it be better to run the initial tests with several generators encircling (say, placed near the room's walls) an ion counter placed in a central location in the test room; or using several ion counters to encircle (again, near the room's walls) a generator (or bank of generators) placed in a central location in the test room?  My inclination is to support the latter; problem though is the cost of multiple ion counters.  Thoughts?



TL;DR
Would it be better to test with several generators encircling one ion counter; or several ion counters encircling an ion source?
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PRI_Derrick
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« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2010, 01:39:28 PM »

Does PRI have an ion counter with data logging capabilities? Otherwise, Derrick's camera idea will work, I'm sure.  I like Derrick's idea of having some initial data on the development and clearance of ions from a given room of a given size.  It really could provide some insight to perceived experiences when using generators.  Specifically regarding Derrick's suggestion, I'm curious:  With the ultimate goal to better understand the development, distribution and ultimate dispersal or neutralization of produced ions, would it be better to run the initial tests with several generators encircling (say, placed near the room's walls) an ion counter placed in a central location in the test room; or using several ion counters to encircle (again, near the room's walls) a generator (or bank of generators) placed in a central location in the test room?  My inclination is to support the latter; problem though is the cost of multiple ion counters.  Thoughts?



TL;DR
Would it be better to test with several generators encircling one ion counter; or several ion counters encircling an ion source?


I like the idea of multiple counters surrounding one ion generator, but, from a feasibility and cost standpoint, that's going to be tough.  So I think that the only way we could do it would be to use one counter and probably three ion generators encircling it.  Variables would be the size of the room, ventilation of the room, distance from the generators to the counter and positively charged items in the room.  Wouldn't positively charged items/material in the room pull the negative ions away from the counter??  How do we counter act this or do we just accept it as a "real world" scenario?

DW
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PRI_Ranier
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« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2010, 05:08:30 PM »

Quote
Derrick wrote:  Wouldn't positively charged items/material in the room pull the negative ions away from the counter??  How do we counter act this or do we just accept it as a "real world" scenario?

I would imagine charged items or structures would attract or repel the generated ions, as we'd probably expect.  But distance would have a lot of impact on the degree of attraction or repulsion.  Two itty-bitty fridge magnets placed 15 ft away from each other don't attract one another significantly; then again, they have a lot more mass than the ions we're discussing, too.  I think one might have to consider that any air currents from windows, door jams, vents, etc, could play a role, as well.  I'm sure there's other things we're forgetting, too, like static charges on metal window sills, clothes and carpet, for example, which could neutralize some ions produced by a generator.

Whatever the case, I think the best one could hope for would be to accept a "real world" scenario, as you put it, Derrick.  I think trying to counteract something would require a very high degree of information about a room and a very good working knowledge of all the things that might confound the results.  Investigators rarely have either of these working in their favor. 

The best data available on the usual behavior of ion generators in rooms might have to be reliant on personal experience alone.  I don't mean paranormal experiences, either:  Data collected from ion meters exposed to ion generators in many different rooms in many different configurations over many trials might be all one could hope for.  Confounders would have to be dealt with as they are realized.
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« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2010, 06:30:42 AM »

We have placed  6 ion generators in a room before and raised the baseline significantly.  No the ion counter does not datalog, however the numbers are big enough to read on a DVR camera.

Nick 
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Bonnie
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« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2010, 05:19:06 PM »

I was just wondering what an ion generator looks like?  I have a salt lamp that emits negative ions, so is that something that could be used to charge a room?  Thanks for any info on my question.   Smiley
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